New Thread. The short version: H withdrew and grew crankier until bomb June 2011 when he said he did not love me and wanted to separate. Depression seems likely but he is not interested in pursuing any kind of help for us, just a D. The legal grounds of 1 year separated have been met and we have Ls, and the ball is currently in his court. I haven't received any kind of papers yet. We are in-house separated and our kids have not been told yet, only certain close family/friends know H wants a D. My role right now is to give him space, work on my own issues, keep busy, and NOT proactively work on the D, leaving that to him.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
This morning H asked for a ride to the airport at 7. It was quiet in the car so I took the opportunity. I said, "H, this is hard for me say, but, S12 has asked me to talk to you about the words you use when you speak to him. Can you give this some thought and we'll talk after you get back next week, about some rules that we can agree on and live by?" and H said okay. whew.
Now I have a weekend to myself. I want to see a movie, get a massage, do some housework.
H returns on his birthday and I'm looking for ideas. I think as a sort of a gift I'll get the paper piles out of the foyer. They landed there when the kids came home from their last day of school and I want to go through them and choose things to keep. That'll be my secret gift. For something from the boys and me, the point of it is more to have the boys involved in celebrating their dad, so I want to give them some ideas and let them choose. (maybe we should get him a third dog )
I hope all my East Coast friends here are battening down the hatches and stocking up on toilet paper for Frankenstorm. Stay safe and dry!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Hi Advina. I have really only skimmed thru your prior threads, so I apologize if I've missed it somewhere, but I didn't see anything on what you think your H's issues with the M were/are. Why do you think he's been miserable for years?
It's really hard to say it in under 1,000,000 words Bill, but the best way I can explain it is in bullets, and these are random, stream of consciousness. It would be easier if I had a cohesive statement I could understand but I don't.
- Our sex life fizzled; I don't think either of us was speaking in the other's love language and the times one or the other just didn't feel into it grew to H's final statement that he would never be interested in it with me again.
- He didn't seem to know how to ask me for what he wanted; either I should have just known it in the first place, or the way he finally expressed it would be critical, sarcastic or passive aggressive, which I stood up to as bullying. So he did not feel I listened to him.
- He had no good role model for being a husband at this stage of life. His dad did not handle conflict and anger well. H, while he has never been physically abusive, seems to handle emotional conflict either with aggressive and demeaning words or by avoiding/burying/running away from it.
- Either depression felt to him like he was miserable in his marriage, or else being miserable led to depression, but one way or another he's depressed - spends a significant amount of his time at home in bed in the dark on his ipad.
- I think he must have suppressed too much of what he wanted to do, out of some sense of obligation to W kids and home. He's going out all the time now, spending lots of time with a friend at restaurants and bars, is more interested in what he wears and how he looks. He seems to like being secretive, answering to no one, putting us on a need-to-know basis.
- Issues that he couldn't raise without putting me on the defensive should probably have been handled with outside help: disagreement about the level of clutter that is acceptable, about how the kids are raised (allowance or no allowance, chores, consequences etc). He was completely unwilling to get outside help, seminars, counseling, books, anything. He just seemed to feel his ideas were right all the time.
- The meaner he got, the more resistant I got. I found it hard to get up the interest in cleaning when I knew he'd just see the spot I missed. I spoke up when I didn't like his tone, which was pretty much whenever he said anything. We were bickering a lot. I'm sure I was not pleasant for him to be around.
- The only things he told his mother about why he wanted a divorce was that I wasn't pulling my weight because I was home with the kids part-time, he was really mad that I found time to volunteer for the scouts and the school and thought I should work more, and that I wasn't raising the kids the way he wanted and he didn't feel I let him have any say. In counseling he said I didn't listen to him. He had told me years ago that if I gained weight that would be a problem, and I am not as fit as he is, much as I try. These things are all I have to go on as his reasons.
- I think that if he was interested in trying - and in opening up emotionally - there's a good foundation for us. But my IC has no hope and I'm losing hope that he'll ever be able to do that. I think the emotions are just too painful for him to allow himself to feel, and it's easier for him to write a big check and walk away.
- We were stuck in unhealthy cycles. The more nurturing I was with the kids, the more cold and punitive he was, which made me nurture them more to make up for it, which made him feel more cold and punitive. The more messy I was around the house the more critical he was which made me feel less like doing anything, which made him more critical. I could see these things but didn't know how to change them. But without knowing you're in a cycle you might just think the other person's a jerk and is bringing you down.
- He maybe never wanted to be married and have kids. He's very passive and maybe just kind of went along with things and doesnt like what his life is like now. He would have been the guy making "ball and chain" comments at weddings, and he thinks it's funny to talk about what PITAs kids are and how much of his money they use up. What used to be a kind of funny routine maybe turned out to be what he really thinks and feels. I don't know for sure. He says he loves the kids but he doesn't say it to them. He definitely says he doesn't love me. Everything else we have is a gigantic expense - mortgage, taxes, cost of living, etc. There's no joy in it for him, it seems.
I guess that's most of it. I really don't know why he's been miserable but these are my guesses as to how the question might be answered. I did not know he was miserable until he started acting really depressed, about two years ago. Up until then he claimed to be fine, we were fine, he was a happily married man, and there was no indication that he would ever be a man who'd bring us to divorce court whether he was blissfully happy or not. He's always been really responsible, dutiful, honor-bound to his commitments...he had to be really miserable, like suicidal, to want to blow up our family. I was worried about his state of mind the night he told me.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
oops you're not bill, you're regular breakdown. sorry about that!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Wow, thanks for sharing. That's a lot to digest, but in the pieces I had read I had kind of felt that your H was mirroring some of my own thoughts/behaviors from the past. Based on your answers, there's definitely a lot of similarities (unfortunately for you).
I think it's pretty awesome that you recognize as much as you do, the cycles, the history, etc. That is really great and can only help you down the road.
The being right, the focus on non-family, the feeling of self sacrifice without discussion, the complaining and being angry....I relate to all that and most of it comes from some very deep places and is hard to work thru. I will think on this a bit more tomorrow and try to provide a little more insight.
Now, with all that said, did you H have any specific complaints about the M or you? What were you doing during dating that you don't do now?
He complained about the things out around the house a lot, and when the kids got older he complained a lot that they didn't pick everything up that they got out. So even if I did clean up it wasn't ok because I didn't make the kids do it. He's Felix to my Oscar. When he complained, if I mentioned that keeping a house and two small kids, and working the entire time they're in daycare/school and then being "on" the entire time they're not, leaves me little energy left to make everything perfect, not to mention how demoralizing it is to have all the many things I did well overlooked because of whatever his eye landed on when he walked in...ugh. At that point he'd stop the complaining, as if he understood, but he didn't understand or see it my way he just didn't feel like arguing about it.
When we were dating, I probably tried harder to look nice whenever I was around him. I've never worn much makeup or styled my hair, or been very fashionable, or wore high heels. I'm more into nature and music and laughing and relaxing. That has never changed. When we were dating, I followed his lead more...we kissed when he kissed me, for a tiny example. After being married many years, when he stopped being affectionate with me, I wasn't comfortable pursuing him, maybe because I was afraid he'd reject me. He said all the things I'd ask for like hugs and kisses and talking were for gay guys, ha ha.
I must be working through some anger; I'm having a hard time not painting a black picture of him, and he's not here to defend himself.
When we dated we did go out and meet friends at bars. I always hated bars, and H doesn't drink, so this was never part of our marriage. Now he's going out to bars quite a bit, as his buddy's designated driver.
When we dated we neither of us had much money, so we spent our four years eating out or cooking in, watching tv and sharing ice cream, going to the fair, vacationing with friends, going to the beach at friends' condos, a few road trips. Family celebrations, jogging together, playing tennis together, playing cribbage. Hanging out at friends' houses. Since we've been married we've been able to do some fantastic trips like Mexico, Hawaii, and we've learned how to camp together and did a lot of car camping and tent camping. Seems to me like it was more fun being married than dating.
I just think maybe my H settled for me because I was there at the right time and was into him. He has always wanted someone sexier and younger based on his interest in Maxim and Victoria's Secret, and with more curves. I think he has the idea that now he can go get that.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Breakdown, if you recognize some of the same feelings I saw in my H, can you give me your perspective on these things? Did your W meet you halfway when you were able to address your anger and communicate better? Or did you change more unilaterally?
So far I've changed unilaterally about as much as I can or think is right, but I won't be able to go back to the way things were, even if H grudgingly decides to drop the D for now. I don't think he has any interest in being a different person. Who he is right now is not easy to live with.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I just think maybe my H settled for me because I was there at the right time and was into him. He has always wanted someone sexier and younger based on his interest in Maxim and Victoria's Secret, and with more curves. I think he has the idea that now he can go get that.
Don't you dare do that. Do not think less of yourself because your H is unhappy, nor because he may put you down due to his own insecurities.
I don't post a lot, but when someone post something that connects with me, I want to try to provide some insight. Unfortunately, so far, I seem to have more in line with the spouse leaving than the one wanting to work on it.
We are all just human....we are broken, with baggage we neither want nor understand. This really connects more with your H than you, but he's not at a place where he gets it yet, so I'll try to give some insight on the things that seem mirrored.
Originally Posted By: adinva
He said all the things I'd ask for like hugs and kisses and talking were for gay guys, ha ha.
I was not raised in a loving family, so I have always had a hard time giving that kind of love. My W is the opposite, and while it provided balance to our kids in some ways, my way was dominate (unfortunately for my kids). We fought a lot thru the years because of this....took me a long time to realize I was doing what my parents (who were awful) did.
For examples, my W always wanted me to tell her ILU. Such a small request....yet, I felt troubled by it. I told her a long time ago "ILU...if that ever changes, I'll let you know." I still love her with all my heart, painfully so sometimes....and I'm ashamed that such a simple thing, asked from someone I'd give anything for, I withheld. It was so dumb, and yet, I never took the time to understand why I felt that way, or why my W might feel different.
With regards to the dating, what were you actually doing, how were you behaving, that is different than today. It kinda sounds like you guys are a bit opposite (much like my W and I) and you bent to be with each other. Over time, maybe that giving started to feel more like a sacrifice.
You mention the sex life dried up. This, I don't understand. Even when my W and I have been at our worst, we always connected in this way. You read 5LL right? Was it lack of the right LL that caused this or something else? How was sex early on?
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